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Clergy, laity push bishops on gay union ban

 
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6:00 P.M. EDT Sept. 16, 2011



A UMNS photo illustration by Kathleen Barry.
A UMNS photo illustration by Kathleen Barry.
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More than 300 United Methodist clergy and 500 laity have signed letters urging the Council of Bishops to take a public stand supporting the denomination’s position on marriage and homosexuality.

The letters respond to the pledges to bless same-sex unions signed this summer by more than 900 active and retired clergy across the United States.

The clergy’s pledges threaten the future of The United Methodist Church, contend both the clergy and laity letters.

“The church needs you to lead,” the clergy letter tells the bishops. “We need you to act before the promised disobedience occurs. We need you to issue a public statement that you understand the proposed disobedience to be a grave threat to the unity and the life of the UM Church and that you stand together in your commitment to defend and enforce the Book of Discipline.”

The Book of Discipline, the denomination’s law book, identifies the practice of homosexuality as “incompatible with Christian teaching.” The book prohibits United Methodist churches from hosting and clergy from officiating at “ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions.”

“I understand that there are people with good hearts on both sides,” said the Rev. Ed Robb III, senior pastor of the 9,200-member Woodlands United Methodist Church near Houston. “But the church has consistently come down with a position. … The way we deal with these matters is through holy conferencing. We don’t do it by renegade activity.”



The Rev. Ed Robb. A web-only photo courtesy of The Woodlands United Methodist Church.
The Rev. Ed Robb. A web-only
photo courtesy of The Woodlands
United Methodist Church.

Robb and four other pastors spearheaded the letter campaign after talking about the issue earlier this month at The Leading Edge meeting, a gathering for the senior pastors of the 100 largest United Methodist churches in the United States.

The other leaders of the effort include the Revs. Tom Harrison of Asbury United Methodist Church in Tulsa, Okla.; Charles C. Kyker of Christ United Methodist Church in Hickory, N.C.; Ken Werlein of Faithbridge United Methodist Church in Spring, Texas; and Steve Wood of Mount Pisgah United Methodist Church in Alpharetta, Ga. The pastors hope to collect signatures from like-minded clergy and laity at www.faithfulumc.com.

“This is grass roots,” Kyker said. “We are not representing any agency or any group. We just have a heart for the unity of our church.”

Bishop’s response

Individual bishops, including Chicago Area Bishop Hee-Soo Jung and Minnesota Area Bishop Sally Dyck, have issued statements affirming their commitment to enforce church law. The cabinet of the Minnesota Annual (regional) Conference recently filed a formal complaint against a retired elder and is investigating whether he violated the denomination’s ban against performing same-sex unions.

However, the pastors want the Council of Bishops to make a statement as a body. The United Methodist Church at present has 153 bishops, 69 of whom are active.

“The bishops have limitations, but what they really do have is influence among pastors and among one another,” said Kyker, whose church has a weekly attendance of about 2,500. “A lot of times we talk about bishops making appointments, and a lot of times we talk about bishops upholding the Book of Discipline. But we fail to mention that they are also to teach and disseminate the doctrine of the church.”



Bishop Larry M. Goodpaster. A UMNS Photo by Mike DuBose.
Bishop Larry M. Goodpaster.
A UMNS Photo by Mike DuBose.
View in Photo Gallery

Bishop Larry M. Goodpaster, the president of the Council of Bishops, confirmed that he and other bishops have received the letters.

When the Council of Bishops’ executive committee meets before the council’s fall meeting, he said, the group would review the letters and “decide about any response that it might make or that might come from the full council.

“I believe that we bishops clearly understand and act according to the Book of Discipline, Paragraph 47, Section Three, of the Constitution,” Goodpaster said, “where we are charged with ‘carrying into effect the rules, regulations, and responsibilities prescribed and enjoined by the General Conference.’”

Long-time debate

Since 1972, the subject of homosexuality has sparked discussion every four years at General Conference, the denomination’s top lawmaking body. Delegates consistently have voted to keep the Discipline’s stance against homosexuality.

Various groups have proposed legislation to next year’s General Conference to change the ban on same-sex unions.

However, this year, a number of clergy have taken the additional step of expressing their willingness to defy church law on the issue.

The movement started at the Minnesota Annual Conference session, where 70 clergy signed a statement saying they would “offer the grace of the Church’s blessing to any prepared couple desiring Christian marriage,” including same-sex couples. Similar statements were subsequently signed by clergy in at least four other annual conference gatherings, including New England, Northern Illinois, Oregon-Idaho and Tennessee.

By mid-August, more than 1,000 U.S. clergy in the United States had signed such pledges, organizers said. There are about 44,400 clergy in the United States.



The Rev. Bruce Robbins. A UMNS file photo.
The Rev. Bruce Robbins.
A UMNS file photo.
View in Photo Gallery

The Rev. Bruce Robbins, pastor of Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church in Minneapolis, organized the signature collection in Minnesota. The clergy’s letter to the bishops specifically takes him to task.

“It grieves me that there is not some sense of compassion or grace or some recognition of an understanding that we too are faithful United Methodists who are caught in a powerful dilemma between different covenants that we have,” Robbins said. “The Book of Discipline calls us for inclusiveness and recognizing the sacred worth of all persons, and then places prohibitions that we deeply believe are prejudicial and unjust.”

Robbins, whose church has an average weekly attendance of 600, is also the former top executive of the United Methodist Commission on Christian Unity and Interreligious Concerns.

He noted that the clergy letter suggests clergy who wish to perform same-sex unions should leave the denomination.

“But I am United Methodist, and my Methodist roots go back many, many generations,” Robbins said. “And there have been times in the Methodist tradition when people have been excluded before, such as women in ordination and the permissiveness of slavery.”

General Conference approaches

Monica Swink, a member of Epworth United Methodist Church in Oklahoma City, criticized the clergy and laity letters to the bishops as “doom and gloom.”

She is a leader in the “Love Your Neighbor” campaign launched by Common Witness, a coalition of three unofficial caucuses that advocate for greater inclusiveness of gay members. The campaign advocates changing the Book of Discipline.

“They are asking the church to punish and judge,” she said. “And I just think the church needs to reflect God’s love.”

However, Ken Werlein, one of the leaders in the effort to press the bishops, said he fears lay people will pressure pastors to stop funding the general church unless bishops enforce the Book of Discipline.

Telling church members that the Book of Discipline requires apportionments “will not have much moral force if others are allowed to break the Discipline and be unfaithful to our United Methodist positions without meaningful consequences,” he said.

The letters follow the trial of the Rev. Amy DeLong in Wisconsin, who was convicted in June of performing a same-sex union and sentenced to a 20-day suspension as well as a yearlong process “to restore the broken clergy covenant relationship.”

Among the letter signers is the Rev. Jorge Mayorga Solis, the district superintendent in Wisconsin who brought the complaint against DeLong.

In February, 36 retired bishops called on the denomination to end its ban on “practicing” gay clergy.

The next Council of Bishops meeting is scheduled Oct. 31-Nov. 4 at Lake Junaluska, N.C. General Conference will next convene April 24-May 4, 2012, in Tampa, Fla.

*Hahn is a multimedia news reporter for United Methodist News Service.

News media contact: Heather Hahn, Nashville, Tenn., (615) 742-5470 or newsdesk@umcom.org.

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Showing 108 comments

  • Tyler Sellers 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    And as far as taking the Bible literally, We as Christians are suppose to take the Bible literally. We use Scripture (which is PRIMARY and Sufficient), Tradition, Reason and Experience to shape our theological and social views. If we used our reason to say " you cant take the Bible literally", then what is the point in even having the Bible? Lets just deny the deity of Christ, the crucifixion, the resurrection, Salvation by Faith in Jesus and everything else that distinguishes us from the world. I have heard the argument that in order to claim that homosexual behavior is...
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  • Tyler Sellers 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    If being kind and showing compassion means condoning homosexuality, then why don't we condone everything?
    Pagan religion, fornication, lying, stealing, cheating, alcoholism, murder, coveting, adultery? EVERY one of these things including homosexuality is a sin. The Old and New Testament proclaim all of these acts sins and abominations in the sight of God. Even though they are sins, we are still called to protect, help, and kindly counsel those with these problems. By condoning sin, we help nobody. The Word of God and the "means of Grace" were given to us so that we might find deliverance from the world...
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  • Karen 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I cannot change who I am, and comments that imply I am some kind of unrepentant sinner are deeply hurtful.  Paul says in Corinthians " For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."  I am a loved and faithful staff member at a United Methodist church, and I have been threatened with termination if I don't remain celibate. It is profoundly unfair to use false teaching to condemn me to a life of singleness.  The rest of you vow "What God has joined together, let no one separate," and yet when God, against all odds, brings a...
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  • Wesley Putnam 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Robbins assertion that "we too are faithful United Methodists who are caught in a powerful dilemma between different covenants that we have..." is the heart of the problem.  The BoD defines our covenant, not personal opinion or preference.  The only choice for Robbins and others who have defied our law and defiled our covenant, is to either recant their statement or leave.  From that position, they can work for change using the tools of holy conferencing.
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  • donpasq 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    As a Christian and a Methodist,  John Wesley's position was that Scripture is the ultimate source of authority. The UMC position on homosexuality is in keeping with Scripture. When the UMC changes it's position on this issue, it changes its position on Scripture. And that is a position the church does not want to find itself in.
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  • bill 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    and please add "homophobic" to that.  Homophobic is a phrase that labels a poster as either neurotic and fearful or bigoted.  Perhaps people are but it is probably a reach to conclude that on the basis of a post.
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  • bill 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Dear Moderator,

    It is acceptable to call those with whom we disagree on this issue hypocrites, Pharisees, intolerant, unloving and on and on? These ad hominem attacks upon those upholding the discipline of the church seem inappropriate...or do I misunderstand "personal attacks, inflammator and demeaning"?
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  • 12helo16 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Open minds, Open Hearts, Open Doors; Did someone's open mind fall out when they bent over? The Bible is very clear on it's stance about homosexuality from Genesis to Revelations. I guess Open Minds means go against the word of God.
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  • mikeguertindisqus 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    If we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then we must believe that the Bible that He speaks to us through. That same Bible that tells us to love each other also tells us not to sin or condone unrepentant sinners in our midst. Just because we dismiss or ignore sin does not reduce or negate sin. How will the sinner know to repent if sin is condoned or ignored or, worse, accepted?
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  • dzlaty 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    There is a resounding difference between loving a person and loving the choices they make.  They issue at hand is not about the people it is about their choice to sin and expecting approval for that sin.  I do not believe you will find a single UMC that will tell a sinner that they are not welcome.  We are all sinners and we recognize the fact that sin is a part of our very being.  We also realize that in coming to accept Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, we repent of our sins and work on sinning no more.  In...
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  • welcoming 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Homosexuals  are made in the image of God as are heterosexuals.  God determined ttheir sexuality and desire to marry.  The Book of Disciplines needs to be revised.
    show more show less
  • marcia 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Read your Bible. God was very clear.
    show more show less
  • chuckcard 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    So welcoming should be put to death? Is that what you mean? That is what the bible would call for. You willing to do that?
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  • proudmaloner 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I see a lot of posts that are arguing the following: "Jesus must support homosexuality, since He never said anything about it."

    What makes you think that Jesus supports it just because He never mentioned it?  Isn't more logical to assume that God's standards of holiness as revealed through the Law are unchanged UNLESS Jesus mentioned it, as is the case with clean/unclean food?

    Look through the Gospels.  Jesus never mentioned incest, bestiality, or pedophilia either.  Does that mean that He smiles upon those practices, especially since many people who practice those today claim to be "born" that way?
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  • Viewerschoice 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Open minds, open hearts, open doors -- unless you are a homosexual in a loving, committed, lifetime relationship.  Seems more than a bit hypocritical to me.
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  • AfricanMethodist 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    The day the UMC changes our position on homosexuality as in the BOD, that when the African Methodists will say good bye to the connection. It is pathetic how such agencies like GBCS have tried to persuade the African church  to accept homosexuality in the UMC. We might be financially under resourced but we have maintained scriptural holiness. At one of the GBCS workshop as an African participant, I was shocked when an ordained pastor in the UMC declared that the Gospel of John was to him unacceptable because of its "claim" of Jesus as THE ONLY way. To me...
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  • Larry_Iowa 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Is "scriptural holiness" a new code word for "biblical literalism?"  Sorry, your homophobia is showing.  Why the threats of schism from the world-wide connection?  Is it "my way or the highway?"
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  • gwroberts1 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Amen!  Just want to point out that there are quite a few Methodists in American would feel exactly the same way you do. We are just as fed up as you are with those that want to ignore God's Word when it is a barrier to their agenda.  We're also fed up with that agenda being shove down our throats all the time and being accused of being bigoted and intolerant just because we want to follow God's word. 

    I agree 100% with you; better to biblically correct than politically correct.  Better to have them mad at me than God mad at me!

    Don't know how it...
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    (Edited by a moderator)

  • LLBobM 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    This report needs to be updated, the numbers are GROWING!
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  • Ladygail 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I would like to see our Disciplines obeyes.  or followed.   I see no reason gays cannot attend church sincer church is a school for sinners, that we all are,. I do see it as  a contridiiction to Jesus teachings to sanction this type of  perversion by making this a legal life style
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  • Pantocrator 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Let's imagine the question was about someone with OCD, dyslexia, or autism.  Would the Left be ritually celebrating those conditions as a "gift from God"?  Would the Right condemn the condition as sin and urge people to pray it away?   Probably not.  Our thinking on this has been overwhelmed with ideological propaganda.

    We need to approach this issue scientifically without political or religious bias for what it is - a developmental disruption of cerebral sexual differentiation leading to a mismatch of anatomy and personality, hardware and software.  As with autism, we don't know the cause.  We don't know the degree...
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  • RP 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Your entire premise is unfounded, has no scientific evidence to back it and flies in the face of common experience. I have known many homosexuals and never met one who wasn't seduced into this lifestyle by another homosexual.  Tracing back to original causes, in case some would say "where did the first sodomite come from?" the answer is easy...the original pervert Satan.  Now the underlord wishes to insert himself into the church as a legitimate being... If the church bows to Satan, she will no longer be Christ's bride, but Satan's sex object.
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  • PTALBANY 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    no matter what version you look in its the same:
    New International Version (©1984)"'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.New Living Translation (©2007)
    "Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.English Standard Version (©2001)
    You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    Never have sexual intercourse with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.King...
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  • Larry Chitwood 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I am curious as to why The Confessing Movement was not identified in this article as the group behind the letter writing campaign urging Bishops to uphold the church's ban on celebrating same sex unions and marriages. I received an email from the Confessing Movement seeking support and asking me to forward the message to others. Just to be clear, I do not support The Confessing Movement nor did I sign their letter.
         It troubles me that leaders within The Confessing Movement are quoted in this report but their connection to the movement is omitted and the movement itself is never mentioned.
    The letter writing...
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  • UMNS editor 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    According to The Confessing Movement, the group did not write the letters to the bishops or create the website. However, the group, an unofficial caucus in the church, certainly supports the effort and is trying to get its members to sign the letters.  That's why the group sent the email you received. The Rev. Steve Wood, who is among the five pastors who spearheaded the letter campaign, is a board member of the Confessing Movement. But the group as a body is not the force "behind" the letter-signing campaign.
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  • CLasherLayLeader 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand

    If man is created in God's image, then God must be man/woman, black/white/red/yellow/all combinations in between, gay/straight/transgendered/bisexual. God so loved the world as to create a new covenant of forgiveness and love.

    Christ told us to love one another and to bring the message of his love to the whole world. We need to spend our time bringing all people which includes the GLBT community that message of love - particularly since so many people feel excluded by the corporate church. The moral path should be to encourage committed loving relationships within our faith communities where our GLBT friends and relatives...
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  • Pastordcmead 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    As North and South went separate ways, so a split in The United Methodist Church is coming.  Bishops, clergy and laity who advocate homosexual inclusiveness will not cease; bishops, clergy and laity who interpret the Bible as declaring homosexuality a sin will not cease their arguments.  The majority, apparantly, will rule -- The United Methodist Church.  What is comforting is that God will prevail, and those who hear Him correctly should lament the loss of many others.  I am a retired Associate Member of the West Ohio Conference, a conservative and one who loves the homosexual so much that I...
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  • Doug Mackey 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Your opening comment "As the North and South went separate ways. . . " - is very telling - and points up the old adage - those who refuse to learn from history are destined to repeat it.  In fact the Church did split between North and South years ago - over a very similar question - with one side arguing for the scriptural legitimacy of their position - that slavery was acceptable - and the other seeing scripture as calling for all people to be seen as equals.  That debate led to a split that took a long time...
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  • gwroberts1 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I fear that you are correct.....I too believe that the United Methodist Church is heading for a split and its been a long time coming.  The church cannot remain like it is with one liberal faction advocating inclusiveness at all costs and the other conservative faction standing firmly on the Word of God even if such a stand goes against the culture at large and the left-leaning UMC leadership.  A church divided cannot stand; the UMC must become all of one thing or all of the other.  The majority will get their way and the minority will leave.  If this...
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  • Stephen Woolverton 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I find it interesting that the headline of this article refers to clergy trying to "push bishops" while the headline of the article concerning those who are in support of gay unions is "more clergy offer."
    It is also interesting that the older article notes that at least 900, or 2 percent of the UM clergy in the US have signed the letter in suport of gay unions, while at this writing the same numbers can be used for the clergy who signed the letter trying to "push bishops" to uphold the BoD.
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  • suziguzzi 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I agree homosexuality is a sin according to God's Holy Word!  Stop trying to tear the Scriptures apart and put them together the way you want them to be.  It is in the Bible that man shall not lie down with man as with woman...Leviticus 18:22.  The LIBERALS in the world are translating God's words to their liking.  You all will see on judgement day with our heavenly Father the only judge that matters!
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  • meshank 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Please post the picture where you have plucked out your eye or cut off your hand ... Let's show them we mean busines when it comes to the literal truth of the Bible. Oh - and let's remember what Jesus said about homosexuality ... oh - nothing. But he was very clear on Divorce. While we are at it - let's rid our churches of those sinners too. And while we are in Leviticus, let's check all the clothing as everyone comes in the door. Remember - wearing materials with cotton and polyester is the same ABOMINATION as homosexuality is (and...
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  • Larry_Iowa 8 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Listen carefully:  Gay is NOT sinful.  Gay marriage is not sinful.  Those who claim that to be the case have their minds made up and are proof-texting in error.  Read Matthew 1 – 28. Jesus message is one of love, compassion, and grace.  Jesus condemns hypocrisy, and greed, greed, greed.  Nothing about gays.  Very simple.  Paul:  Ah, the famous Rom. 1:26 -27 we hear so often.  Read ALL of Romans 1 – 3.  Paul is dealing with the conflict between the circumcised Jewish followers of Jesus and the gentile followers.  The Jews considered themselves better Christians.  Hypocrisy, again.   The specific behavior Paul refers to in vs. 26-27 is obviously prostitution, promiscuity, and adultery.  NOT loving gay...
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  • Stephen Woolverton 6 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    It is interesting to see you pick and choose your way through the Bible. Paul was called by Christ to spread the Gospel, but you say of his message, "some not so good." Leviticus, the Law of God handed down through Moses you are simply not going to pay attention to. And of all the teachings that Jesus did throughout Matthew (not to mention the other Gospels) you are going to ignore righteousness, justice and mercy (I am actually surprised you didn't include mercy). Is there any other parts of the Holy Scripture that you would have me ignore?
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  • Larry_Iowa 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    All of scripture is interpreted!  Scripture is understood in the light of tradition, reason, and experience.  (J. Wesley)  So for picking and choosing, do you affirm Paul’s assertion that wives must submit to their husbands; that women should be silent in church (never ordained) or that slaves should obey their masters (slavery not being sinful)?   Is that truly the word of God?  Seriously, do you think eating pork or shellfish is a sin?  I follow Christ (as Christian) not Paul.  Paul was most certainly fully human, and fallible.  The text of Leviticus, likewise.  We do ourselves no favors by affirming intellectual bankruptcy.
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  • Stephen Woolverton 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    It is sad to see that some have gone so far as to ignore the Triune God as well as the Old Testament. And to address your comment farther down: you don't have to take my argument seriously - you don't have to take the Bible seriouslty - you don't have to take God seriously. But, I do.
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  • Dale Bailey 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I have some to ignore while we're on the subject of picking and choosing; specifically, those that forbid eating shellfish and pork, wearing a garment woven of two dissimilar materials, allowing an illegitimate person to enter the congregation of the Lord up to his tenth generation, divorce for any reason other than infidelity, allowing women to speak in church . . . oh, wait, we're ignoring these already!  Therefore, we're practicing "Cafeteria Christianity", taking those which we want and leaving the remainder behind.  This fact being the case, why should we cling to and embrace one scripture zealously, and discard...
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  • Stephen Woolverton 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    If your case is that we should embrace all of scripture, then we are in agreement. Do not think that because I embrace one part of scripture zealously that I do not embrace others in the same manner. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. And when discerning if homosexual sex is a sin, one must look to the Holy Word of God, and not discard a scripture that directly pertains because it doesn't support their preconceived notion.
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  • Larry_Iowa 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Steven:  I will take your argument seriously when you show me even a single quotation of Jesus which states that homosexuality is sinful, or whatever.  (Don't even bother looking; it isn't there.)
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  • Gene55 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    It is time for all of us to re-read Romans chapter one.

    Homosexuality is a sin.   It has always been a sin, it will always be a sin.     The Bible repeatedly tells us this.

    It is a grave mistake to conclude that right and wrong can change "with the times".    It is also a grave mistake to manipulate or to edit out the parts that we don't care for.    No more than you can wish away gravity can you wish away God's righteous instructions for our conduct.
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  • Kim Hao Yap 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    UMC with its American General Conference delegates would have changed the homophobic legislations years ago but they roped in overseas foreign delegates particularly from Africa  to cast the homophobic votes to sustain the teaching of the church that homosexuality is a sin. The irony is that the same type of Methodists who supported racism in the past are now embracing the blacks who are homophobic. They are even trying to structure the church to make it global when all the former UMC churches in Latin American and Asia with the exception of the Philippines have become autonomous. This is to...
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  • Child_of_the_Living_God 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I find the Title interesting that Clergy and Laity are "pushing" Bishops?  Give me a break, can anybody really PUSH a Bishop?
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  • Child_of_the_Living_God 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    At the Iowa Annual Conference we defeated an attempt to change the Discipline dealing with homosexual unions.  As i stated at that time, my heart is breaking for our denomination.  There is room at the foot of the cross for EVERYONE all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.  God's word DOES NOT and Has NOT changed, there are things in God's word that i have trouble with HOWEVER, God's Word doesn't change, His WORD changes me. Maybe someday we'll all realize that the only one who matters is JESUS.  The one who steals, kills and destroys...
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  • Child_of_the_Living_God 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    To JimN,  I was checking out Matthew 17 and was wondering exactly where does Jesus talk about hetero OR homosexual relationships?
    Matthew 17
    The Transfiguration
     1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.  4
    Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If...
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  • bill 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    He's referring to Matthew 19:12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” NIV
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  • bill 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Matthew 19:12 is probably what was being referred to. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” NIV
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  • Child_of_the_Living_God 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Matthew 17
    The Transfiguration
     1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.  4
    Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I
    will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for
    Elijah.”
     5 While
    he was...
    show more
  • NMex 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I have basically left the UMC several years ago because of this issue and what I felt was an incomplete Gospel message being pushed down the throat by the bishops and clergy.  While grace is a big thing there are other things that God talks about and that is obedience to His Word and the consequences of not doing so - His holy wrath.  Wesley talked about holiness and I think we have lost this concept in the UMC.  We are supposed to present ourselves as a living sacrifice to God.  I think that means that we need to be...
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  • 3sonatine 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I see a lot of throwing out of Scripture here as though we are Christian gun-slingers and the proof-texted passages are our bullets. We load Lev. 18:22 and other passages in the chamber and feel righteous as we pull the trigger. All the while we shout over the bang "Don't be offended, I'm just loving the sinner and not the sin!" And yet, while we are throwing around a passage like this, we don't consider the volley to this passage, which is Lev. 20:13 ("If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall...
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  • FenceSitter1 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Please help me discern here a little. So do we use the bible just as a story book or do we use it as a guide? There is much more in verbage in regards to a man laying with a man, and a woman laying with a woman. How is it then are we to white out this language.  How do we do this? It seems to me, for a pastor to marry two of the same sex that Lev. 20:13 and any other verses that apply, it would be hypocritical to even hold the Bible in his/her hand during...
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    (Edited by a moderator)

  • OneofGodsChildren 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    It is still a book that was written by a MAN, 352 AD It was HIS interpretation of what was said and HE was not even there!  Did you ever play post office with your kids? How much can a story change in 352 years? How much can it change from one person to the next?  GOD gave us HIS version of the BIBLE, the 10 Commandments, let us follow this version, they have not changed in over 2000 years!
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  • Eric 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    People keeping spouting off this marketing phrase (Opens Hearts, Opens Minds, Open Doors) as if it’s some sort of biblical precept, it is not.  It is exactly what it sounds like, a marketing slogan, devised by our extremely liberal (both politically and religiously) hierocracy, to attract congregants that support there off the wall interoperation of Christ’s word.  I hardly believe that when Jesus said for us to love the sinner He meant that we should turn the leadership of our church over to adulators, sodomites, fornicators, pederasts and every other form of sexual pervert we could find.  He meant for...
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  • Viewerschoice 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Blessing a union of two persons who are guy is hardly turning over the leadership of our church to "adulators, sodomites, fornicators, pederasts and every other form of sexual pervert we could find."  By the say, are you saying that any clergy person who has sex (and is thereby, by definition, a "fornicator") is unfit for church leadership?
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  • OneofGodsChildren 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    God GAVE us the 10 Commandments to live by.  Lets not complicate this and add a few more......# 11Thou Shalt not be homosexual.  #12 Thou shall live your life according to the Book of Discipline.  KISS =Keep it Simple...!  Do you really think "being" or "Practicing" being a homosexual is a phase we are going through? Do you really think we woke up one morning and said "gosh, today I am going to start "being" gay/lesbian?  Do you think we do not get enough ridicule from our family, neighbors, co-workers etc? Do you think we come to church so we...
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  • NMex 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    There is a problem with saying "I live my life the way I think God would want me to,...".  That means everyone can live however they want to and ignore what God has revealed to us through His Holy Word.  I don't live my life by how I think God wants me to live it but by how He said to live it.  That includes being repentant of sins that I have committed and asking His help in not doing it again.  I come from a long line of alcoholics so perhaps I have that built-in trait but I don't...
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  • Father Monty 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Let's examine the issue of defining something as a "sin" and why I argue that we do not have agreement on this.  We would all, I believe, cite the ten commandments as a clear list of potential sins.  However, we have many brave men and women who will choose to serve in our armed services and kill another human being if necessary.  Within the ranks of United Methodist we have those who believe that this is a violation of the sixth commandment and others who do not.  If a person called to ordained ministry - served and killed others in...
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  • Father Monty 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Okay, for the sake of the discussion, not as a point of belief that Jesus or the Bible is clear on this, let us say that homosexuality is a "sin."  So what should that mean?  First and foremost as Christians we do not rate sins on a scale of mild to severe - right?  A sin is a sin is a sin . . . and the just punishment of God is the same.  If therefore "a" sin - disqualifies someone from being ordained - then would we not all be disqualified?  All the pastors and lay people in the...
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  • Stephen Woolverton 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Actually, having sinned does not disqualify anyone from service either as clergy or laity. In fact, the opposite might hold true. All have sinned and fallen short - this is not the discussion at hand.

    As you said, for the sake of discussion ... let us say that homosexuality is a sin, then it would be against God for a clergy member to knowingly lead another into sin or to condone that sin. This is what the discussion is about. If homosexuality is sin then performing a homosexual union would be knowingly condoning sin.
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  • Father Monty 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Then Stephen - since I am convinced that killing another person is sinful - I must council everyone to not enter the military service less they be tempted to go against God.  I must council believer's in their proper biblical diet - less they offend God.  We are in agreement - it would be wrong to "knowingly" lead another into sin.  We also agree that having sinned does not disqualify anyone from service for all have sinned.  So - in the end - we are brothers who simply disagree - you may not believe that eating shellfish or serving in...
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  • Stephen Woolverton 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Monty, thank you for your loving response. I don't believe that all sin is dependent on the individual, however. Some, yes, as it seperates us from God. Other sin, no, as Moses was given Ten Commandements that we are not able to pick and chose from. We all do need grace. Grace and Peace to you also.
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  • John_Eyster 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    VERY DISappointed that Christians in the United Methodist tradition are working to CLOSE the Hearts, Minds and Doors... sad! What a contradiction of JESUS' OPENING of HEARTS, MINDS and DOORS!  Whatever, GOD IS STILL SPEAKING and thereby OPENING HEARTS, MINDS and DOORS!  PTL!
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  • prettykitty123 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I feel that we should follow the Holy Bible and the UMC Book of Discipline and not allow same sex marriage in our church, even if other demoninations are doing so.  We are a Christian church and homosexuality is not compatable with Christian teachings.  Like the commented before, I love homosexual individuals as children of God and love them as I would love myself (after all, we should all follow the 10 Commandments). 
    Homosexuality is a sin and always will be.  Call me old fashioned, but God created marriage to be a union of man and woman; not woman and...
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  • prettykitty123 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I feel that the church should follow the Bible and UMC Book of Discipline about homeosexual marriage.  Both state that it is not allowed!  Practicing homosexuality is a sin and always will be.  Marriage is for only men and women, not men and men or women and women.  The same goes for having gay pastors in the UMC; it should not be allowed, because it is not compatable with Christian teachings and our Book of Discipline.
    I am one of those old school church goers, and feel that homosexuality is a big sin and God will never change that.
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  • Jorge Washington 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Comparing the sin of homosexuality/gay/lesbian/transgender/etc. with any other sin, and saying that numerous other sins are given "flexibility" within the church, does nothing to help the argument to continue sinning in homosexuality, homosexual "marriage", etc.  A sin is a sin.  Regardless of how inappropriately a church may treat or manage a particular sin, does not then make it "permissible" to allow the other sins such as homosexuality, homosexual "marriage", etc. "flexibility".  There is only ONE marriage, and that is God-ordained, and only God defines marriage (does not include homosexual/gay/lesbian, etc.).  ALL other marriages are false in God's eyes.  Yes, He...
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  • JimN 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Actually, there is one place in Matthew's Gospel (Chapter 17--I'm on vacation without access to a Bible) where Jesus appears to acknowledge "those" who do not engage in heterosexual relationships (some born that way, some made that way by "men," and then a third category of such men for a reason I don't remember), and if memory serves, Jesus simply states the situation without expressing any offense toward such persons.  That is a far cry from his disapproval of those who divorce.  Let's see: how many divorced clergy do we have in the UMC, to say nothing of the laity.
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  • zaerr3 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    WWJD?  Ask yourself this.  Are we forgetting that we should be a reflection of Christ?  Would Jesus allow same sex marriage/union?  Is this not considered a sin?  At the same time, "Love your Neighbor as yourself".  Our churches do need to take a stand publicly but in a loving way.  I do not hate the gay community but love them as children of God.  However, I do believe that we need to take a stand as Methodists and Christians that 'practicing' homosexuality is a sin.  There are gay rights in society as a whole that protect against discrimination but shouldn't we as Christians have rights...
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  • gwroberts1 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    In the words of an Aaron Tippin song "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything!"

    I am from a family that has roots in the Methodist Church that go back at least five generations.  When my ancestors became Methodists, the Methodist Church was a Bible-believing church.  My question is it still a Bible-believing church today,  and if it is not, does a Bible-believing Christian got any business being part of it anymore? 

    You cannot claim to love and serve God and then go against God's Word!  The Holy Bible is Gods's Holy Word; the Book of...
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  • Patty 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    From my limited knowledge of the Holy Scriptures, I must conclude that God is not happy with gay marriage.  The following Scripture references clearly indicate that God is not pleased with gay and lesbian activity, and I believe, He consequently is not pleased with gay marriage.   Gen. 19:1-10; Lev. 18:22; Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:26,27; Cor. 6:9-11.   I urge you to read these verses with an honest and open mind, and I believe you too will conclude God is not pleased with homosexual marriage.
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  • Mason Conde 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Romans
    1:26
    “Because
    of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women
    exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.In the same way
    the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed
    with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other
    men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”  Scripture clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes.  The church of Jesus Christ is not supposed to conform to the culture but to transform it with the truth.  Just because the book of discipline might say it is alright...
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  • b54186 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Where are all of the people who attend our churches who are thieves , alduterers, and other sinners mentioned in the New Testament? Do you just "reckon" that they understand what the aforementioned SINs are , and since it is Listed in the BIBLE , that they know they should just "be quiet" and go on about their way? ( OR BETTER YET - ACCEPT JESUS AND REPENT AND SIN no more )?   Why - now - or should I say since 1972 , do we continually hear from the Homosexuals that they are not committing a "SIN" ? ,...
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  • Shawn Hughes 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    This is troubling, I for one will be converting to the Roman Catholic Church, they stick to what they preach! It is ashame that the UMC will ignore God's word's and allow gay marriage..yuck!
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  • christian4jesus84 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    As a christian I believe God is open to anything not saying he would agree with everything. I think the united methodist church should embrace homosexuality and same sex unions for same sex couples. I think the united methodist church should be open minded not close minded. Remember what Jesus said about who among you can cast the first stone without sin in your life. By the way I am not only a christian but I'm also gay If it's one thing I will not put up with in any church is bigotry and homphobia within the walls of any...
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    (Edited by a moderator)

  • Larry_Iowa 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I am so sick of these narrow-minded judgmentalists who call the love I share with my gay, legally- and religiously- married (in Iowa) husband sinful!!  What part of Jesus' message don't you understand?  When did Jesus delare that certain types of love are sinful?  Read the scriptures, you UMC Pharisees.  Just don't twist the interpretation to fit your prejudiced notions of what you consider to be sinful.  God loves all, not just those who exclude others based on the Book of Discipline.
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  • Darrell Spurlock 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Lot's of talk about sin.  But so much focus on ones in particular.  We should list them all, and in sticking to the "biblical" literalism that follows, enforce the mandates scripture calls for.  Luke 16:18 says, "Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."  Leviticus 20:10 says "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."  How are certain requirements followed, but other left in the dust of "well, that was then..."?...
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  • bill 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    You said, "Lot's of talk about sin.  But so much focus on ones in particular."
    One in particular is being presented systemically for approval.  It makes sense that we would discuss it.  Not many people say that Homosexual behavior is wrong.  Therefore nothing else is.  The thesis being presented is that we are to accept homosexual behavior, give it the legal sanction of marriage and ordain those who participate in it.  In most opinion that would be a massive change, not only in this particular instance but a rejection of the primacy of Scripture as well as 2000 years of...
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  • relkins33 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    If sin is sin... and homosexuality is sin ... then we can no more tolerate, much less bless with a worship service; a gay union; a church goers lifestyle who practices homosexuality anymore than if they were openly cheating on their spouse or shoplifting each weekend. Unless we can believe that homosexuality is not a sin. I for one cannot and will not defy God or his holy word on this matter. As pastors we are called to preach Jesus Christ crucified for our sins, but cannot neglect to preach repentance of sin just as He did.
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  • NUKD 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I like the statement and I signed it.  But we UMs do not believe and I don't think the Bible teaches that "homosexuality is sin."  We all have desires that are displeasing to God.  What matters is what we do with them.  That's why the Discipline states that "the practice of homosexuality" is incompatible with Christian teaching, not the desires of or the orientation of homosexuality.

    And while I'm on it, on the other side, please stop misrepresenting the conservative position.  We don't say that "gays are incompatible with being a Christian," we simply agree with the Bible and the...
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  • NUKD 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I like the statement and signed it.  But we United Methodists do not believe that "homosexuality is sin;" we believe that "the practice of homosexuality" is sinful.  All of us have desires that are displeasing to God.  It's what we do with them that matters most. 

    And while I'm on it, UMs, even we conservatives, do not believe that being homosexual in orientation is incompatible with being a Christian.  If we're going to have a helpful conversation we must present each other's views fairly.  Again, it's the practice, not the desire or the orientation.
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  • feslop 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Find-a-church says Hennepin Ave UMC, where Bruce Robbins preaches, has an average Sunday worship attendance of 602.  The article says it is 1600.  Which is is?  Without knowing the answer I can say that if the attendance has grown from 600 to 1600 under his ministry, wow.  If his church is not experiencing serious growth, why?  Does anyone know?
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  • UMNS editor 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Find--a-Church is correct. It's about 600. UMNS was given the wrong number and we are hoping to get a correction soon.
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  • dramstadc 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    When I went to scan the signatures at Faithfulumc.org, I was disheartened to see that someone chose to forge Bruce Robbins as a signature. When signing a call to holy conferencing, it seems to me we should be willing to practice "the plain commands of God" and not bear false witness against one another.
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  • Rev_Yoder 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Editor   see recent post to editor with three names of signers at Faithfulumc.org .  since this has been posted for 3 days you cannot just remove it with out calling attention to the erroneous claim of forgery and misrepresenting the facts  yet I do not wish to have listed the three full individual names from Faithfulumc.org posted to disprove the erroneous statement and resulting spreading rumor. Suggested reply below:

    Having examined the electronic signatures at Faithful umc.orgthere are only three Robbins listed-  One female Rev. Robbins from the Upper New York Conference;  one female laity Robbins from the Texas Annual Conference;...
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  • UMNS editor 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Like you, I did not see any listings for Rev. Bruce Robbins, but there may be something I missed.
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  • Sam Holdbrook-Smith 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    It is sad that we as a Church don’t want to talk about sin anymore.  Practice of homosexuality is sin.  The early Church of Jesus Christ consisted of homosexuals and all kinds of sinners like us who heard the Good News, accepted, believed by faith and practiced it and as result changed.  All what we preach is God’s grace and love.  How about God’s justice?
    “Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-- none...
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  • Patty 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I agree 100 percent.  God's word tells us that homosexuality is a sin.  If the UMC caves in to the modern world, then I for one will leave the church.
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  • OneofGodsChildren 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    It would be better to come to an understanding, than to run away.
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  • brother_roger 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Anyone and everyone may come to the throne of grace. However, we must never lose sight of the fact that Jesus Himself called for repentance, turning away from sin. While sin is always with us and is not a very popular topic these days we must ponder the nature of repentance and ask ourselves if we, as the church, are willing to endorse what is clearly defined as sin in God's word. The current world view is that our feelings trump the truths contained in scripture. We must never allow that to happen to our church. God loves everyone and...
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  • crodenberg 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I tried to add my name but the link to the web was down.
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  • aliceinwonder 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I stand firmly in the protection of
    marriage between a man and a woman.  Gays and lesbians have a
    legal right to live as they choose but they don’t have a right to redefine
    marriage for all of us.  Good
    men and women of faith have been left high and dry by those determined to place
    adult intimate desires above the needs of children and the religious liberties
    of everyday Americans.  Should the UMC cave in on this subject, I will resign.  We have individual rights in America.  No group should ever be able to destroy that.
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  • Patty 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I too will resign if our church caves in to the gays and lesbians.
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  • prettykitty123 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I agree.  The UMC should stick to their Book of Disipline and the Holy Bible, not cave to peer pressure from gays.  I am debating switching denominations if this keeps up.
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  • OneofGodsChildren 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Do you not think Homosexuality exists in other religions? We are every where! You can no longer sweep us under the rug and pretend we do not exist! We have a voice and want to be heard! I am not a sinner because I am homosexual, no matter what YOUR version of the bible is!
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  • CharlesSpence 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Now we're supposed to support the prohibition of gay clergy and gay unions not because it's the right thing to do, but because it's in the Discipline. Ack!  Just suppose for a moment that this clause was suddenly just absent from the Discipline; no replacement text.  Would homosexuals take over the local churches or the national church?  Would the clergy become suddenly gay?  Would local congregations fill up with same-sex married couples?  Would the Unity of the denomination be compromised?  Certainly not.
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  • Cspick 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    This is NOT a matter of "Church law" it is a matter of God's law. How can pastors who claim to be Christians openly flaunt sin in the pulpit? Of course God loves sinners, but He hates (abhors) their sins and clearly describes them in the Scriptures. Do these pastors and others not know what sin is?
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  • EquineMedic 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    It is time to remember that the renegade of all times was Jesus himself. Where are the hearts that stand on both sides of this issue? With these hearts come the Spirit to understand the true words spoken by Jesus himself. We have long stood on beliefs and teachings that mature with time.
    Those members and clergy that threaten to leave our denomination if the bishops don't change their additudes and social justice stance, are the same hearts that have driven so many loving and faithfull christian homosexuals from our pews.
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  • storyrock 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I don't know which "Lord the 2nd previous writer is refering to.  My Lord Jesus never commented on homosexuality or same-sex relationships, but he did say that people who divorced and remarried were committing adultry.  Under Jesus my Lord's definition I could be brought up on charges as I am divorced and remarried.  God helps us grow into new understandings of God's Word--a word that didn't stop when the back cover was put on the Bible.  As a retired pastor, I attend a Lutheran Church (no UMC in our community) and feel very affirmed as the ELCA voted to support...
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  • Stephen Woolverton 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I thought the Lutherans also believed in the Triune God.  Read the Nicene Creed again (2nd and 3rd sentences). Your Lord Jesus did comment on homosexuality. It was in the Law handed down to Moses. I too follow Jesus the Christ---not the prevailing culture. (Matt 7:21-23)
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  • BillMatt7 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    This makes such a mockery of the principles at the top - "Open hearts. Open minds. Open doors."
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  • Candi Smith 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    It's the hypocrisy that is destroying our church.  "Open hearts, open minds, open doors"?  Hypocrisy.  We have no such openness.  We are liars and the whole world knows it.  Serves us right.
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  • 1BillButler1 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    The idea of same sex marriage is asinine.  Marriage is an institution created by God for the propogation of man.  Marriage between same sex individuals is a perversion of God's purpose for this institution.  Homosexuality is a sin, no greater or less a sin than any other.  We were all born into sin, each of us with a desire to sin.  We are to hate the sin, but love the person.  We are to admit our sins to God, ask forgiveness, and repent.  To accept homosexual marriage is to dismiss the sin.  Would we dismiss the sin of murder, theft, or lying because someone argued...
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  • Meltone 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Sadly, this matter has become the "make or break" issue for a deeply troubled and at this point in time, dying denomination.  We are mirroring the example of Congress and the polarization that exists in this culture.  In my own experience, this has been an issue local lay leaders could not manage in a civil manner. We should not be surprised that so many have dismissed our beloved denomination as a powerful witness for grace and love and prophets bearing God's Promise of a New Creation.
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  • jbsadlbak 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Our Lord makes the rules... not us. Just because someone disagrees with the Lords instruction doesn't mean it should be changed to their way of thinking. I can hardly believe Rev. Robbins calls GODS instruction as "prejudical and unjust". Our Lord God is predudice and unjust? That is pure, unadulterated blasphemy! The Word makes it very clear what to do re: homosexuality!!! Too many of our people keep trying to fit into a "modern" world (the one Apostle Paul warns us against falling into/for) in a time when we need to stand firm for the Word! Come on Bishops.... stand...
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  • Candi Smith 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Our Lord makes the rules ... we don't.  ... the Lord's instruction ... GOD'S ... prejudiced and unjust ... Come on, Bishops ...  representatives ...
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  • Pastor_R 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    As a licensed local pastor this is a continuing controversy that has strong feelings of committment from both ends of the spectrum.  I used to be on one end of the spectrum but have felt my views change as I have grown in my own relationship with Jesus Christ.  I am supportive of maintaining adherance to the rules within the book of discipline as they now stand but believe the time has come to show compassion, empathy, and sympathy with a segment of the population that has for so long been distanced from the free grace of God.  If we...
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  • Stephen Woolverton 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    How can you, out of love for another, watch them go down the road that leads them to the pit? How can you see the destination of the path that sin will take them, and let them continue on that path? How is this Love? Love is, at the very least, stepping on some toes. Love means standing in their way. Love means yelling at them until they open their eyes to the destination that they are headed toward. If you love them, you will think less of how they feel at this moment and more about their eternal salvation.
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  • KBeth4Truth 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Doesn't becoming a christian require us all to "change"? When we accept Jesus as our savior, we have to put the old ways behind us, right? When we become christians we "change" the sinful ways of our past. When I became a christian, I had to work very hard to "change" my sinful habbits. How is this different from requiring a homosexual to "change" his/her sinful ways? I dont believe that it is different AT ALL!! I believe in loving people no matter what their sin, and I dont believe gays should be locked out of churches, but i also...
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  • Candi Smith 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    the Book of Discipline
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