× Comments for this thread are now closed.
  • Avatar
    DS

    85,631. Wow! No way to spin that no matter how hard we try.

    • Avatar
      kimber DS

      I don't know folks. It is as if we are disengaged from the Holy Spirit and don't even realize it. When that happens we become a shell of religion without the presence and power of the Spirit. When we can't stand up and take a unified, Spiritual position on matters such as abortion, homosexuality, and same sex marriage, all seems lost. When the church is more concerned with looking more like the world than Christ, the church ceases being the church. You and I can't add one single person to the kingdom of God. Only He through the work and power of the Spirit can. I know that we are the vessels through whom He works. But if we are not worthy vessels, He will find another abode more worthy.

      • Avatar
        Jo kimber

        Disengaged from the Holy Spirit - I can agree with you there. People "out there" still need the Lord, need to know God is love, need to know hope in their lives at times when they feel hopeless.Christ's commands to us are, "Love God. Love one another." Nowhere in the Gospels does he so much as mention abortion or homosexuality - and neither was unknown in the 1st century. Call these things sin if that's your conscience, but this is not the core of the Christian message. To reach the world we need to hold up Jesus, not rant about the sins we consider most reprehensible.

        • Avatar
          kimber Jo

          Amen, Jo, we do seem disengaged. People will always need the Lord, and God is love. People do need hope. People cannot truly live without hope. Hope can be considered an acronym: Having the assurance Of the Promise of Eternal life. Jesus tells us that the two great commandments are to: Love God with all our heart, mind, strength, and soul, and that the second is like unto the first, to love your neighbor as yourself. Everyone in need is your neighbor. On those two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. We have the Great Commission to go and make disciples, teaching them what Christ has taught us, and baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He also gave us the New Commandment that we should love each other as He has loved us. For the Christian, Agape love (as a noun and verb) is at the center of our being. It is the "oil of Christianity." It is eternal. It is God. And what is sin? It is that in our lives that misses the mark that God sets for us. Surely as His church, sin is not something that we need never be concerned with individually or corporately as His church. Jesus tells us that one servant cannot judge another servant of the same master. And we shouldn't. I can no more judge you in regards to your relationship with Christ than you can judge me. The contents of our hearts are hidden from each other. Only God sees our hearts. But I believe that we can and should judge the fruit that a tree is producing as to whether it seems good or bad. For one purporting to live a Christian life, His Word is the touchstone we go to for guidance and direction in ascertaining how He would have us live day by day. Wesley's quadrilateral indicated that Scripture will always be first and foremost in determining how we will live in accordance with God's will. If Scripture seems unclear, then tradition,
          reason, and experience may also come into play for interpretation. From what I have been able to ascertain, Scripture in no way supports a conclusion that it is appropriate to kill/murder a preborn or new born baby. There is no justification for infanticide. Since 1973 we have slaughtered about 100 million. That's an entire generation of people. Additionally, there is nothing in Scripture to support an affirmation for homosexuality or same sex marriage. The strongest tenor of Scripture seems top speak against it. Personally I call nothing sin, but His Word does and, I accept His Word. A large purpose of His Word/Law is to reveal the presence of sin. If the church cannot recognize the presence of sin in the world then we are in trouble. If we can't recognize it, we can't avoid it in our personal lives. And really, other than the sin against the Holy Spirit, I guess that there is no such thing as a "most reprehensible sin." For He who is holy, I guess that all sin is "most reprehensible sin." Jo, I'm sorry that I upset you, may God Bless.

          see more
        • Avatar
          winx40 kimber

          Kimber, you are absolutely right!! I am watching our Church slowly disintegrate. We are at the point where all behavior is ok, where the message is that God calls us to love everyone, regardless of the behavior. Our Sanctuary has become an extension of the fellowship hall where little is any reverence is shown. The 1st 15 minutes of our services is devoted to announcements, the next 10 to children where last Sunday they were asked to run around as part of the point of the message, maybe a few hymns, a 5 minute sermon where 'God is love', then to the fellowship hall we go. Quiet and reverence should be part of a Sanctuary experience, where the focus should be on worship but is replaced by lots of talk, laughing, I suspect the next step will be to put the coffee pot into the Sanctuary, just to save a few steps for us, the parishioners. Yes, we are disengaged from the Holy Spirit and guess what, most don't even, "realize it". True the Son may not of focused on the 'sins we consider reprehensible' but you know what? HIs Father sure did!!!!!!!!

          • Avatar
            kimber winx40

            Winx40, there's a lot of truth in what you say. I guess that I'm a traditionalist when it comes to our time together in worship as the church. I like that quiet reverence of heart that seems to bring me closer to the heart of God. Others may feel differently, and I don't have anything against contemporary services. But the traditional service seems to meet my needs more fully. There's nothing wrong with Pentecostal services with their exuberant manifestations lifting up the Lord. And I suppose that many times we are tied too closely to an order of worship that inhibits the working of the Spirit. The Israelites of the Old Testament had a cultic service given to them by God. It was not cultic as we think negatively of cults today, just ritualistic including burnt offerings. Christ did not give us an order or manner of service for worship in the New Testament. He may have given us direction though in Acts 2 where it tells us the early church was devoted to the Apostles' teaching, Prayer, Breaking of the Bread, and Fellowship. To reach and be relevant to the culture today, I suppose that we must wrap the message/service in the church culture we encounter that lifts up the Lord without doing detriment to the message or worship and yet invites those outside the church to enter therein. To do otherwise would make it difficult for us to accomplish the Great Commission that He has set before us.

      • Avatar
        Ricky Parker

        May I suggest one more. Every church and it members should be involved in a personal way in missions. Jesus said that we should go and make disciples of all nations. This is being obedient to Christ, it gives people a place to use their talents and giftings, it brings excitement back into the church, opens our eyes to the needs in our world and our purpose in it. Ricky Parker livingclay@live.com

        • Avatar
          kimber Ricky Parker

          Ricky, I agree with you that every church should be involved in missions in a personal way. That doesn't mean that every member of every congregation will be called as one to serve directly in the mission field. A good example of a congregation and members called to the mission field is found in the 13th chapter of the Book of Acts. While the church leaders at Antioch were worshiping and fasting, the Holy Spirit called for Paul and Barnabas to be set apart for the mission work that He had for them. Paul's first mission trip did not result from a planning session but from the Spirit's initiative as the leaders worshiped. All church members were not called as missionaries directly, but all were called to support the church's ministries including missions in different ways. This same model probably applies to us today. Based on individual gifts and graces, certain persons are called directly into the mission field. They may be individuals from ones personal church or other churches within the district or conference. But we all play a roll in pursuing missions by providing the needed support that we can based on our own personal gifts, graces, and circumstances. Holston Conference seems to follow this model very well. But in many churches we don't seem to hear much verbal emphasis placed on our vital role in missions at home and abroad. Such emphasis could possibly be increased within the church through Sunday School, worship service/preaching, prayer, and education. And we must never forget the importance of the engagement of the Holy Spirit in the endeavor to ensure its success.

        • Avatar
          Nathan

          It would be helpful in an article about seven conferences that increased attendance and eight that increased worship attendance to know which conferences these were. Perhaps some kind of chart with attendance and membership reports for 2012 from all conferences might be made available when the last three conferences complete their reports. Thank you for this article.

        • Avatar
          Pastor t

          Why would you talk to conference leadership? The truth is, the saints of these churches grew their church IN SPITE OF THE BISHOP AND CONFERENCE STAFF!

          • Creed Pogue

            Since the North Georgia Conference has gone from 273,559 members in 1990 to 337,635 in 2004 and now has 362,802, then a lot more information on them would be really helpful. The Dakotas have gone from 52,011 in 1990 down to 36,592 in 2012. While Central Texas has increased by 22% since 1990, North Georgia has increased by 33% in the same timespan. By comparison, the Western Jurisdiction has shrunk by about 30% in those 22 years and the North Georgia Conference is now larger than the whole Western Jurisdiction. So, more of the NGA story would probably help the rest of us.

            • Avatar
              look again

              When half of the US population is moving down south (with a lot of exaggeration of course), no wonder church "looks" like it's growing. Indeed, these are exciting news in the midst of steady decline. We just need "more" excitement all over. God help us.

              • Tommy Conder

                Love seeing stories of hope. I have never lost hope in the UMC in America. I see the hope alive in people's faces every week. Thanks to our leaders of the conferences as well as the leaders in each church for not only hanging on to hope, but for sharing it!

                • Avatar
                  Roger W

                  The membership of the N. Ga. Conference has grown But, everyone needs to look at conversion and baptisms as an indicator of real growth of the Conference. Many people leave other churches and transfer their membership to the Methodist. The world we live in is becoming P.C. (political correct) thinking instead of Kingdom thinking. Unless we are ministering to the unchurched and bringing in new souls for the Kingdom it will all be temporary.

                  • MattLinden

                    We will start seeing growth in all regions when we start planting new congregations in communities where the existing United Methodist congregations are failing. We have to stop using the presence of a United Methodist congregation of less than 25 senior citizens who meet in a dilapidated building with no parking, whose ministries consist of an annual calender of rummage sales and church suppers, as a reason NOT to plant a new congregation in that community. No amount of training sessions, subsidies so they can employ a young/experienced/effective pastor or conference initiatives is likely to change the culture of these failing congregations. I've been around the UMC since 1992, when I was a "young" seminarian and watched these congregations go through appointment after appointment. The church does these congregations a disservice when they are led to believe things can turn around. What did Jesus say about putting new wine in old wine skins? It doesn't work.