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Thank you, Bishop Dyck, for taking this stand. Your affirmation of permanent, rather than serial relationships is key. Not only should it help in Illinois, but it may also help us keep those couples in our local [MI] church who feel our denomination has abandoned them. The UMC will change, but it is taking far too long to do so.
"Bishop Dyck" should know her bible.
What the Holy scriptures really say about this situation. Her duty in
the eyes of the Lord is to be Obedient to the Great I AM, and to bring
these genders to the Lord without compromise. What Bishop Dyck's says
and the Discipline which indicates the following: One of the
denomination’s Social Principles listed
in the Book of Discipline declares: “Certain basic human rights and
civil liberties are due all persons. We are committed to supporting
those rights and liberties for all persons, regardless of sexual
orientation.” Whoever made that statement has their work cut out for themselves(oop's). I have met these genders, many of them are very social and kind. They are a beautiful and sincere indeed. Many years ago, one of came to me and ask me. What do you think of my condition (my gender). With all due respect to my dear friend. I told him, may I speak freely, and he said go right ahead. What do you have between your legs, he took my statement by surprise. Then I said to him, the Lord could have made you a female if He desired it so. I said unto him that the Holy Scriptures states that he hates sin, but love the sinner. All you have to do is to surrender your heart to Jesus and he will indeed restore you. He was very grateful for knows me very well. Never have I insulted him in any way. I was very sincere with him. My consultation was completely Bible oriented.I gave all the Honor and Glory unto my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The way I see this situation is dividing the United Methodist Church. The Bible is much greater than the Discipline or the Bishop. For HE IS THE GREAT I AM. So Jesus suggest that their should be a definite spiritual communication in order to avoid further spiritual disaster. As a Methodist christian I Believe that Love is the key to unite all in one body-Christ. I love my Genders, but they need to understand that the word of God is serious. No Bishop, Minister can alter the will of God. You cannot manipulate the word of God for your own purpose, for this You all have studied many years in order to be Ordained into the Ministry!!!. Love You All!!!. Be very careful in the Book of Discipline, what statements you may enter, seek all in prayer, seek the word of God for guidance and He will direct you all in His Holy Path.
It is a leadership crisis when a body cannot decide where they stand. From the scriptures, two things stand out clearly in regard to homosexuals -- 1) God loves gays, and 2) like the other parts of our sin and brokenness, he never normalizes the practice -- which is what we do when we slide into the cultural drift to embrace gay unions. May God grant the leadership of the UMC the grace to stand on our foundational beliefs rooted in the Scriptures, and provide leadership to those lost in the haze that our culture is lost in. "If salt loses its saltiness, it is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled by men."
It is a sorry thing when a Bishop of the church takes a public postion opposing the Church's stand. It would be one thing for Bishop Dyck to privately oppose the position but by making her statements publicly she gives credence that the Church supports gay marriage: something it doesn't. If Bishops can pick and choose which rules to follow can we lay persons do the same? Would it be acceptable for a lay speaker to Baptize new members, or give Communion?
It is unfortunate that the Bishop is accepting sin that costed Sodom and Gomorrah. If the Bishop is preaching about leaving and forgetting sin why should she condone homosexuals. Instead the bishop should be preaching about people accepting Christ as Lord and saviour and not increasing the load of sin on their heads. It is clear that God will charge the Bishop for the sins she is accepting people to do in the name of rights. Its my prayer that God should show the bishop a true way of leading the flock and forgive her of what she is talking about
I am glad that Bishop Dyck has taken a stand in support of Gay marriage. As a United Methodist, I believe that the United Methodist Church is committing a great wrong by not recognizing the harm being done to our Gay, bisexual, lesbian, and transgender brothers and sisters. We, as a church, have had to apologize to the African American community for policies of the past that were formed from ignorance, hatred and discrimination. This is no different. If all are God's Children, then perhaps we should consider the possibility that God made gay people too. Just something for those who are unsure to ponder.
We are all God's creature, not all are God's children. God did not make his creatures gay, otherwise scripture would not speak against it. There is no harm being done to LGBT members because all are sinners and all have fallen short of the glory of God. Is the church committing a great wrong to those who commit adultery because it is condemned by the church? nonsense, if Christ can heal a great a sinner as saul, the murderer, then surely someone who is a homosexual can experience the life changing power of Christ.
Marriage should always be happy and joyful (gay). What dos that have to do with a deviant sexual activity?
Is anyone open to a scientific understanding of what same sex orientation really is and what causes it? Here is some really good science on the subject. (BTW objective science treats it as part of a bigger spectrum of developmental disorders in sexual differentiation.)
As for religious doctrine and canon law, the Social Principles do not have the weight of doctrinal standards, but the Articles of Religion and Standard Sermons do.
Article IV Of the Old Testament states: "no Christian whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral."
In the Standard Sermon called "A Caution Against Bigotry" John Wesley gives his own view. Search for the word "sodomites." (Link below) That sermon is a doctrinal standard.
Marriage is an expression of loving sexual intercourse. Inter- means "between" - between the sexes. A healthy marriage can be many things, but it can never be sexist.
It is inappropriate for bishops to release statements that publicly disagree with official church policy.
Didn't John Wesley go against the beliefs
of the Anglican Church? Doesn't the Methodist Church encourage, Open
hearts, Open minds, Open door? Some of the comments I see here are less
than open in any of those categories. Jesus accepted everyone and He
will be our final judge.
I see lots of stone throwers here. I also see many comments that do not adhere to the most important of God's laws, according to Christ, which is to love your neighbor as yourself.
the key part in the stone thrower story that is often overlooked is later when Jesus says to the woman "go and sin no more". In no way did Jesus approve of her behavior, but because of the grace of Jesus he allows all sinners back into right relationship with him, this includes me as well as homosexuals
Bishop Dick not only knows her Bible, she knows her God and loves all of God's people. Thank you Bishop Dick for speaking out on marriage equality for all of God's families.
Bishop Dyck's statement was obviously crafted carefully. We can not learn if we do not allow our bishops to teach. Anyone can read the BOD. Asking our bishops to simply repeat the words in the BOD will not get us anywhere. Bishop Dyck both honored the BOD and taught. People have a right to disagree with her but do not quench the teaching office of the episcopacy.
The church should and has made plain
their stance on moral grounds. While this issue makes me uncomfortable,
where the state is concerned I
disagree with legislating morality and believe people should be free to
make their own decisions concerning relationships. The state shouldn't
regulate relationships at all. They need to get out of people's lives. The church should support and affirm individuals and strive to teach in a respectful way. Some churches do this better than others. This issue only allows for divisive posturing and rhetoric. We should be listening more and talking less. Inserting ourselves into the media limelight does one thing - further divides us where we should be celebrating our ministry.
If "the state shouldn't regulate relationships" then it should not license marriage or hold people accountable in any way to uphold the contracts and covenants implicit in marriage.
The problem here is that it takes two to make a marriage but only one to break one and by so doing, to bring harm on the other partner and any children related to the broken household.
For this reason, the state does regulate marriage. It prohibits persons from marrying individuals of close blood relation, people who have not paid child support, people who have not waited 72 hours after acquiring a marriage license, and people who are already married. It grants custody of children primarily on the basis of the children's best interest and rights with only secondary regard for the rights of the adoptive, step, or biological parent. The state regulates the disposition of and responsibility for real property and the stewardship of children of married, widowed, and divorced individuals. This is not the legislation of morality. It is the legislation of justice, holding people to the contracts they make, the consequences of their actions, and protecting the welfare of the weak.
This is where treating marriage as a civil right is inappropriate. It is a responsibility, not a right, and one that is licensed and regulated by the state.
Equal protection does not apply to homosexual unions any more than it does to polygamous or incestuous unions. Equality of the domestic state only extends to aspects that are equal - things like respect for privacy, private property, freedom of association but stops at the part that is not equal - genetic and sexual diversity (anatomy), legal status, and quality of the relationship itself (where no two are equal).
Unlike a civil union or domestic partnership, marriage is a sexual union. The very idea of sexuality is undermined by the discrimination against and exclusion of the opposite sex from the "gay" marriage. Homo-sexuality is an oxymoron, a type of homogeneous diversity.
Sexual orientation is being oriented to sexual intercourse - relations "between" the sexes. Innate, involuntary homoerotic desire, therefore, is sexual dis-orientation.
"Equality" suggests that a man and a woman are sexually interchangeable. They are not. Not anatomically. Not psychologically. Not ergonomically.
A baby of either sex has a sexual orientation to seek out the female parent for nourishment. Sexual disorientation, for the baby, means starvation. Sexual disorientation for an adult means extinction. The appeal to subjective pathos, relativist non sequiturs and euphemisms does not change natural law.
That being said, Jesus loved so many people who were broken, who were diseased, who were deformed, who were tormented, who were rejected. Liberal or conservative, if we claim Jesus, we have no choice on this matter. We are a people of truth but also of mercy.
Bishop Dyck is providing the spiritual leadership that a bishop should. God is bigger than the Bible. And the Holy Spirit inspires us in new ways in new times for new things. I admire her courage and deeply appreciate her voice in the wilderness of the global UMC. The Bible is not as clear as many would have us believe. It is however a voice of God's grace for all who go to it. For me Matthew 19.12 is Jesus himself accepting GLBTQs in another era for all ages. Exegetes from the school of Baselides in the early church understood this. Why must "Christian" homophobes discount work of scholars who where much closer to Jesus' culture than we are? It's just a tradition of hate that we continue to defend that was born in a time of ecclesiastical corruption. It's God's grace and Christ's blood that redeems us all, not Bible thumpings on our heads.
I cannot see how you can say that the Bible is not clear on this issue. If we discount certain writings contained in the Holy Scriptures then we may as well throw them all out! We cannot pick and choose what we will believe or defend simply because we have been indoctrinated by our current society to believe that there is now a new normal. This is not hate nor is it Bible thumping, rather an acceptance that God's Word is sufficient to guide us into salvation and holy living. Did not Jesus Himself say, "Repent and believe the gospel?" Belief without repentance cheapens the grace that God offers.
I am glad my wife and I are no longer United Methodist.
I left the UMC too. The UMC clergy has let this get out of control. If they don't discipline the teachers of heresy, the people in their congregations will be cursed. Paul with the Corinthians made this very clear.
Praise God for Bishop Dyck!!! May we love, as Christ said - rather than hate
SImply to disagree with you is not to hate you. I would rather talk with you and have you know that I love you regardless of your opinion and share with you or anyone exactly what the Holy Scriptures say on the matter of homosexuality.
How dare the bishop speak against the Bible and the Book of Discipline. God indeed loves the sinner, but it is very clear that if we don't use the proper name for immoral conduct, we are guilty of damning the lost.
“Certain basic human rights and
civil liberties are due all persons. We are committed to supporting
those rights and liberties for all persons, regardless of sexual
orientation.” Some Methodists do not yet support full Christian same-sex marriage. However, all Methodists should support full CIVIL marriage equality, as the right to have one's marriage legally recognized, the right to protect one's family, and the rights to equal protection before the law are essential and fundamental human rights.
To become a part of God's family, we all must all personally confess we are sinners. Then a change is required. That change is a commitment to follow God, his rules, his leadership.
Will you be as supportive when someone wants a civil union in addition to their marriage? Or when a brother wants a civil union with their sister?
Praise God for Bishop Dyck!!! May we all learn to love each other instead of hate!
To help determine the truth of this issue, let me ask a question. How many people commenting are reading their Bible and praying daily? God's word is the "Truth" and the answer will be obvious! Jesus told Peter to, "get behind me Satan", because Peter was focusing on human beliefs, not the Kingdom of God.
So the way to promote the homosexual
agenda in Illinois is to throw divorced/widowed and remarried people
under the bus in order to take the moral high ground? “Serial
relationships... undermine the security
and stability of our communities and of individuals ultimately.” And liberals are applauding her language? Have we been doing this homosexuality debate so long that we are going crazy? The Illinois law will do nothing to stop people from getting divorced and remarried and will do nothing to stop serial relationships. She is deploying a straw man argument here: irrelevant.
If she truly believes "serial relationships" undermine security and stability of communities, perhaps she should reconsider the Methodist itinerancy.
The above article relates a study showing that 50% of existing gay marriages are open / intentionally non exclusive. Reality check.
The Bishop is in violation of our Book of Discipline and should be brought up on charges. It is outrageous that a Bishop in the UMC should work to subvert the BOD and the Word of God. Disgraceful.
Since the bishop thinks it is acceptable for her to make a public stand that is contrary to church law, will she find it acceptable for churches to withhold paying their apportionments because their members disagree with actions and statements of church agencies and leaders?
Remember Christians, if people didn't stand up for what they believed there would be no America.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and has the right to speak it. Don't be quick to judge, be quick to understand and accept.
GC 2012 showed us, if nothing else, that there is a lack of trust in our bishops. When bishops publically disagree with or (as others, not Dyck, have done) call for the ignoring of our Doctrine and Discipline, those actions only reinforce the distrust and deepen the crisis of leadership that is devestating our church.
Seems to me a few past leaders of our Christian movement have disagreed with established teaching - and have led us to new understandings - a few examples - Wesley, Luther and that first century carpenter from Nazareth. In each case the work they did was seen as unorthodox and contrary to established teaching of the time - yet look at what those beliefs led to. Just something to think about.
It is true that everyone is entitled to their opinions. I treasure the wide diversity of opinion within the United Methodist Church. But Sally Dyck is in fact a BISHOP of the United Methodist Church. If she cannot and will not preach and teach the Book of Discipline, she should, in good conscience, resign, or take an appointment in a local congregation. There would be honor in that.
Bishop Dyck is very clear about two things: 1. What our official stance is as contained in the Discipline. 2. Her own personal convictions disagree with the official stance. She does not advocate that any UM Clergy violate the Discipline. She does an excellent job of reminding us of the tension all of us face at times between deeply held convictions and official beliefs of the denomination. At the same time she does not advocate going against the Discipline. She merely makes it clear that she respectfully disagrees. I agree with her 100% and applaud her respectful approach.
Linda, you have said it beautifully. Bishops are to lead and she has in a respectful and caring way being true to her faith AND still abiding by what is currently church "law" (not necessarily GOD'S LAW).
Thank you Bishop Dyck! May you continue to follow God's lead. Have courage. You are not alone.
What is clearly in question here is our process of selecting bishops. Rev. Dyck is obviously speaking and believing against Church doctrine and Holy Bible writings and teaching. Shame on us for selecting a bishop with these non-biblical and non-Christian views and agendas. We should all be in prayer for Rev. Dyck that her heart and eyes be opened to Biblical and Godly truth.
Are we going to live by the Book of Discipline or not? I we are, then allbishops as well as clergy need to be warned and punished for non-compliance.
Jesus said absolutely nothing about homosexuality and had much to say about divorce. On the issue of homosexuality the church insists on putting words into Jesus' mouth while ignoring or justifying his admonitions on divorce.How hypocritical! We allow those who commit adultery to administer the sacraments as if Jesus said nothing about divorce and remarriage. No wonder we are in decline! The church was wrong when it excluded black people and is wrong for excluding gay and lesbian people! Thank you Bishop Dyck for your prophetic voice!
While Jesus didn't directly address homosexualityHe did address adultery when He told the woman brought to Him to "Go and sin no more." Homosexuality is in reality a specific type of adultery which Jesus did indicate was sin. Truly we have a long way to go, but we must consider that it is not we who have the final say in this matter, but God. Thankfully He has already said it and it is contained in His Written Word.
Jesus did in fact speak about divorce, you are correct about that. Jesus didn't specifically mention homosexuality, that is true. He does, however, talk about marriage more than he talked about divorce. Jesus always defined marriage as between one man and one woman. Did you miss that somehow? Jesus upheld God's original intent for marriage from Genesis, which Jesus even quotes.
Bishop Dyck needs to re-read Romans 1:32 where Scripture talks about giving approval to those who practice a whole host of iniquities, including "the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves" so, "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."
As a church and as clergy we must proclaim the Good News that salvation is for everyone who will come to God through Christ in repentance for their sins. There simply is no salvation without repentance and woe be to those who are called who preach a different gospel than that!
There is only one issue here. Is the United Methodist Church,and it's Bishops and Pastors, going to teach the Bible or just do as they please?
And the UMC wonders why they have more people going out the back door than they have coming in the front...
Only General Conference can speak for the United Methodist Church. When Bishops and others over step their bounds and make statements like the one Bishop Dycks made it only hurts the church. She may feel encouraged that 215 clergy in her conference agreed with her but what about the 481 clergy and the thousands of lay members in her conference that don't? How will she minister to them?
Thank you, Bishop Dyck, for your brave witness in upholding the sacred worth of all persons.... from a long-time UM clergy member, who is getting weary with our church's infidelity in this matter. One day, please Discipline guardians, may I officiate same sex marriages as a UM pastor...